Traditional Oils -v- Water Soluble Oils - The Complete Artist2024-03-28T16:16:59Zhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?commentId=2450081%3AComment%3A798572&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThank you Toska for your repl…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2018-03-27:2450081:Comment:7984782018-03-27T18:25:44.159ZNicole Barrière-Jahanhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/NicoleBarriereJahan
<p>Thank you Toska for your reply... I didn't use a lot water, except that my brushes were wet before taking paint on them ... But, I will try to find a fast drying medium .. I looked at the Cobra brand and it seems that they don't have, but I suppose that I can mix with another brand medium ... I was also wondering if it's a good idea to try Liquin which is, I think , Alkyd medium ... ? </p>
<p>I don't need the paintong to dry very quickly but at least in 3 or 4 days ... besides, I do not…</p>
<p>Thank you Toska for your reply... I didn't use a lot water, except that my brushes were wet before taking paint on them ... But, I will try to find a fast drying medium .. I looked at the Cobra brand and it seems that they don't have, but I suppose that I can mix with another brand medium ... I was also wondering if it's a good idea to try Liquin which is, I think , Alkyd medium ... ? </p>
<p>I don't need the paintong to dry very quickly but at least in 3 or 4 days ... besides, I do not paint with a lot of thickness, I like the paintings quite smooth, without too much impaction ...( suppose that impaction is not the right word ;) )</p> Nicole, I think you meant to…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2018-03-27:2450081:Comment:7985722018-03-27T15:29:46.010ZToska M. Courbronhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/ToskaMCourbron
<p>Nicole, I think you meant to ask how you can speed up drying? I have been using WSO for several years. First, WSO or WMO (water mixable Oil) are "OIL PAINTS". They dry the same time as regular oils. They are to be used like oils. DO NOT use water to thin. Companies are now offering mediums to use with WSOs. I use LUKAS Medium 3 "Fast drying medium". But caution, this really causes fast drying. If you used water to thin, that explains the slow drying. Just use water to clean your…</p>
<p>Nicole, I think you meant to ask how you can speed up drying? I have been using WSO for several years. First, WSO or WMO (water mixable Oil) are "OIL PAINTS". They dry the same time as regular oils. They are to be used like oils. DO NOT use water to thin. Companies are now offering mediums to use with WSOs. I use LUKAS Medium 3 "Fast drying medium". But caution, this really causes fast drying. If you used water to thin, that explains the slow drying. Just use water to clean your brushes instead of solvent. I use Duo Aqua Oil DO 502 Linseed Oil to thin. I use either Lukas Berlin or or Duo Holbein brands for WSO/WMO. I don't use Cobra as they are too oily for me. Hope this helps. PS: I would not use with acrylic except to use acrylic to tone the canvas. Use WMO the same as traditional oils.</p>
<p>Toska<br/> <br/> <cite>Nicole Barrière-Jahan said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?page=3&commentId=2450081%3AComment%3A798462&x=1#2450081Comment798462"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi all, I have recently joined this forum and think that it can be very helpful ...</p>
<p>I have been using acrylics for a long time, after working with watercolours and before switching to colored pencils during 15 years. I'm actually coming back to paintings and I have bought acrylics again... But I wanted to try water soluble oil paintings too and I bought 2 tubes of Cobra... </p>
<p>Well, just Titanium white and primary Cyan to give a try in my skies before buying more... <a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2767617808?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="500" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2767617808?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="500" class="align-center"/></a></p>
<p>I was very happy with the rendering and also that I could take my time to make the details before the leaves ... But my problem is : I made that little painting 12 days ago and it's still not dry ! </p>
<p>What medium can I use to reduce the drying time ? I enjoy to superpose and use glaze so it's just too long for me ! </p>
<p>Thank you for your advices :)</p>
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</blockquote> Hi all, I have recently joine…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2018-03-27:2450081:Comment:7984622018-03-27T11:14:52.956ZNicole Barrière-Jahanhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/NicoleBarriereJahan
<p>Hi all, I have recently joined this forum and think that it can be very helpful ...</p>
<p>I have been using acrylics for a long time, after working with watercolours and before switching to colored pencils during 15 years. I'm actually coming back to paintings and I have bought acrylics again... But I wanted to try water soluble oil paintings too and I bought 2 tubes of Cobra... </p>
<p>Well, just Titanium white and primary Cyan to give a try in my skies before buying more... …</p>
<p>Hi all, I have recently joined this forum and think that it can be very helpful ...</p>
<p>I have been using acrylics for a long time, after working with watercolours and before switching to colored pencils during 15 years. I'm actually coming back to paintings and I have bought acrylics again... But I wanted to try water soluble oil paintings too and I bought 2 tubes of Cobra... </p>
<p>Well, just Titanium white and primary Cyan to give a try in my skies before buying more... <a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2767617808?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="500" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2767617808?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="500" class="align-center"/></a></p>
<p>I was very happy with the rendering and also that I could take my time to make the details before the leaves ... But my problem is : I made that little painting 12 days ago and it's still not dry ! </p>
<p>What medium can I use to reduce the drying time ? I enjoy to superpose and use glaze so it's just too long for me ! </p>
<p>Thank you for your advices :)</p> Thank you for that informatio…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2018-01-15:2450081:Comment:7950442018-01-15T05:13:22.060ZColleen McCaffertyhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/ColleenMcCafferty
<p>Thank you for that information Barbara. Obviously more brands have come onto the market since I first asked the question. I mostly just paint in watercolour now, but it's good to get some feedback on the traditional oils -v- water based oils question. Your paintings are lovely and I can't tell any different to traditional oils.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Colleen</p>
<p>Thank you for that information Barbara. Obviously more brands have come onto the market since I first asked the question. I mostly just paint in watercolour now, but it's good to get some feedback on the traditional oils -v- water based oils question. Your paintings are lovely and I can't tell any different to traditional oils.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Colleen</p> Hi Colleen,
I have been using…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2018-01-14:2450081:Comment:7948192018-01-14T23:36:14.902ZBarbara Freundhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/BarbaraFreund
<p>Hi Colleen,</p>
<p>I have been using water mixable oils for some time now. I like the easy clean-up and reduced exposure to solvents. There are several brands available now ( Windsor and Newton, Lukas-Berlin, Duo-Aqua, Cobra, etc.) and you should try them all to see which you like best. I do like the Cobra paints and find them quite reasonably priced. Last year I learned that Daniel Smith was making a water mixable oil and tried them. They are really quite nice. I attached a couple of…</p>
<p>Hi Colleen,</p>
<p>I have been using water mixable oils for some time now. I like the easy clean-up and reduced exposure to solvents. There are several brands available now ( Windsor and Newton, Lukas-Berlin, Duo-Aqua, Cobra, etc.) and you should try them all to see which you like best. I do like the Cobra paints and find them quite reasonably priced. Last year I learned that Daniel Smith was making a water mixable oil and tried them. They are really quite nice. I attached a couple of paintings....Sitting with the dog on the bay was painted with Cobra paints. Swimming lessons was painted using the Daniel Smith paints. Whichever you choose you will be able to achieve the same effects as traditional oils. Happy painting!</p>
<p>Barbara</p>
<p></p> I switched from Cobra to Holb…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2017-12-21:2450081:Comment:7934022017-12-21T04:32:22.814ZToska M. Courbronhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/ToskaMCourbron
<p>I switched from Cobra to Holbein Duo and Lukas Berlin. Cobra left tacky for a long time and the paint itself was very oily. You can also now get Holbein Duo Linseed oil specifically for WSO. It is great.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Candi Hogan said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils#2450081Comment569698"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi Colleen! I've attempted two paintings now in water soluble oils. Used…</p>
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<p>I switched from Cobra to Holbein Duo and Lukas Berlin. Cobra left tacky for a long time and the paint itself was very oily. You can also now get Holbein Duo Linseed oil specifically for WSO. It is great.<br/> <br/> <cite>Candi Hogan said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils#2450081Comment569698"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi Colleen! I've attempted two paintings now in water soluble oils. Used them for one of my Challenge 41 paintings (the other I did in watercolor). With both of the W.S. Oils I used Cobra Painting Medium....they take a long time to dry. Lots easier clean up than oils, but not as easy as watercolors! I haven't painted with oils in years, but when I did...painted differently. I always did an under painting and then layers of glazes, so difficult to compare. I have read that Richard uses walnut oil, going to try that, and will also try just with water. Would like to learn more about them myself...so will keep my eye on this forum, and let you know my feelings on the water and walnut oil! </p>
<p>Liking the reminder about Murphy's Oil Soap, that does wonders to restore brushes!</p>
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</blockquote> You're right, if you don't cl…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2017-08-14:2450081:Comment:7867462017-08-14T06:13:48.404ZRichard Robinsonhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/RichardRobinson
<p>You're right, if you don't clean up with solvents (just store brushes in safflower oil) and don't use a quick drying painting medium (eg. Liquin) then there is no difference in toxicity that I know of.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Jeff Hyman said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?id=2450081%3ATopic%3A403596&page=2#2450081Comment665658"><div><p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>I'm a beginner with oil painting and if this thread is…</p>
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<p>You're right, if you don't clean up with solvents (just store brushes in safflower oil) and don't use a quick drying painting medium (eg. Liquin) then there is no difference in toxicity that I know of.<br/> <br/> <cite>Jeff Hyman said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?id=2450081%3ATopic%3A403596&page=2#2450081Comment665658"><div><p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>I'm a beginner with oil painting and if this thread is still open I have a question for those with more experience. </p>
<p>I like the idea of WS oils vs regular oils but I'm having trouble seeing where there is much of a difference in safety. If you avoid toxic pigments and use walnut oil as a medium (maybe also with oil of lavender if you need a thin medium) the only difference I can see with traditional oils that you need to clean your brushes in walnut or safflower oil before you wash them with soap. This is an extra step but I don't see the difference in solvent exposure. Am I missing something?</p>
<p>thanks for your help, Jeff</p>
<p></p>
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</blockquote> Thank you for your response G…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2017-03-04:2450081:Comment:7623072017-03-04T00:20:18.718ZColleen McCaffertyhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/ColleenMcCafferty
<p>Thank you for your response Gerald. Your brush cleaning exercise sounds excellent!<br></br> <br></br> <cite>gerald greenblatt said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?commentId=2450081%3AComment%3A762479&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2450081Comment762479"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I began painting with acrylics because I was intimidated by oils. All those mediums and solvents and procedures that you have to…</p>
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<p>Thank you for your response Gerald. Your brush cleaning exercise sounds excellent!<br/> <br/> <cite>gerald greenblatt said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?commentId=2450081%3AComment%3A762479&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2450081Comment762479"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I began painting with acrylics because I was intimidated by oils. All those mediums and solvents and procedures that you have to follow. Toxicity and safety issues !</p>
<p>But I took a class and the teacher allowed us to choose any medium. I was becoming more committed to painting so I decided to take the plunge and paint with oils like the big boys do.</p>
<p>After a few years, I have learned how to make painting with oils very easy.</p>
<p>I bought odorless mineral spirits ( Gamsol or Turpenoid in the U.S.), linseed oil and alkyd lite.</p>
<p>Alkyd is an additive that makes oils dry faster.</p>
<p>I mix a solution that is equal parts oil and solvent then I add about 10% alkyd to it. I keep it in a small plastic squeeze bottle.</p>
<p>I use this to change the consistency of the oil paint. After a while, you just know when to use it.</p>
<p>The surface of the painting can be dry to the touch in as little as a day!</p>
<p>Then there is the matter of cleaning brushes!</p>
<p>Simple, really.</p>
<p>Again,I make a mixture of oil and solvent, 40% oil, 60% solvent more or less. Keep it in a jar with a lid.</p>
<p>When it is time to clean my brush,I wipe as much paint off on paper towel ( kitchen roll ) or cloth or something as I can.</p>
<p>Then I dip the brush into the oil and solvent.</p>
<p>I wipe the brush. Dip. Wipe. Dip. Wipe. Maybe 6 or 7 times .Never swirl the brush...just gently dip it into the medium and lift it out. It isn't necessary to remove every bit of pigment.</p>
<p>FINALLY. I dip the brush in a mixture made of artist grade safflower oil into which I've added clove leaf oil.</p>
<p>I don't wipe off the oil from the brush.I set it aside covered with this oil medium.</p>
<p>The clove leaf oil takes a LONG time to dry! </p>
<p>The reason we clean our brushes is that we don't want any paint to dry between the bristles. This would deform the shape of the brush. But if the brush doesn't dry between sessions, there is no problem.</p>
<p>You can go about 3 weeks before the brush will start to stiffen.The, either you start to paint again or else you re-apply the clove infused oil to your brush to keep it soft.</p>
<p>Note: Use only artist grade safflower oil, not what you find in the market.</p>
<p>The beauty of this procedure is that your use of solvent is minimal.</p>
<p>Brush 'cleaning' is a breeze.</p>
<p>And, since oil paint is mostly oil, I can clean my hands etc. with simple dishwashing liquid which is formulated to cut through oil and rinse clean.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Cleaning brushes by swirling them in pure solvent releases a lot of fumes into the air and forces you to buy a lot of solvent.</p>
<p>You end up with solvent soaked rags which are dangerous to have lying around.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Gerald</p>
<p></p>
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</blockquote> Thanks for your input Richard…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2017-03-04:2450081:Comment:7625862017-03-04T00:19:03.889ZColleen McCaffertyhttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/ColleenMcCafferty
<p>Thanks for your input Richard. It's interesting that you have gone back to standard oils. I'm painting in watercolour these days. <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Richard Robinson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?commentId=2450081%3AComment%3A762479&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2450081Comment760299"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Over my career I've moved from watersoluble to standard oils to archival oils by…</p>
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<p>Thanks for your input Richard. It's interesting that you have gone back to standard oils. I'm painting in watercolour these days. <br/> <br/> <cite>Richard Robinson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://thecompleteartist.ning.com/forum/topics/traditional-oils-v-water-soluble-oils?commentId=2450081%3AComment%3A762479&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2450081Comment760299"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Over my career I've moved from watersoluble to standard oils to archival oils by chroma to watersoluble and now am back to standard oils made by M Graham. As for the fumes, I just paint outdoors more than indoors.</p>
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</blockquote> I began painting with acrylic…tag:thecompleteartist.ning.com,2017-03-03:2450081:Comment:7624792017-03-03T23:29:47.463Zgerald greenblatthttp://thecompleteartist.ning.com/profile/geraldgreenblatt
<p>I began painting with acrylics because I was intimidated by oils. All those mediums and solvents and procedures that you have to follow. Toxicity and safety issues !</p>
<p>But I took a class and the teacher allowed us to choose any medium. I was becoming more committed to painting so I decided to take the plunge and paint with oils like the big boys do.</p>
<p>After a few years, I have learned how to make painting with oils very easy.</p>
<p>I bought odorless mineral spirits ( Gamsol or…</p>
<p>I began painting with acrylics because I was intimidated by oils. All those mediums and solvents and procedures that you have to follow. Toxicity and safety issues !</p>
<p>But I took a class and the teacher allowed us to choose any medium. I was becoming more committed to painting so I decided to take the plunge and paint with oils like the big boys do.</p>
<p>After a few years, I have learned how to make painting with oils very easy.</p>
<p>I bought odorless mineral spirits ( Gamsol or Turpenoid in the U.S.), linseed oil and alkyd lite.</p>
<p>Alkyd is an additive that makes oils dry faster.</p>
<p>I mix a solution that is equal parts oil and solvent then I add about 10% alkyd to it. I keep it in a small plastic squeeze bottle.</p>
<p>I use this to change the consistency of the oil paint. After a while, you just know when to use it.</p>
<p>The surface of the painting can be dry to the touch in as little as a day!</p>
<p>Then there is the matter of cleaning brushes!</p>
<p>Simple, really.</p>
<p>Again,I make a mixture of oil and solvent, 40% oil, 60% solvent more or less. Keep it in a jar with a lid.</p>
<p>When it is time to clean my brush,I wipe as much paint off on paper towel ( kitchen roll ) or cloth or something as I can.</p>
<p>Then I dip the brush into the oil and solvent.</p>
<p>I wipe the brush. Dip. Wipe. Dip. Wipe. Maybe 6 or 7 times .Never swirl the brush...just gently dip it into the medium and lift it out. It isn't necessary to remove every bit of pigment.</p>
<p>FINALLY. I dip the brush in a mixture made of artist grade safflower oil into which I've added clove leaf oil.</p>
<p>I don't wipe off the oil from the brush.I set it aside covered with this oil medium.</p>
<p>The clove leaf oil takes a LONG time to dry! </p>
<p>The reason we clean our brushes is that we don't want any paint to dry between the bristles. This would deform the shape of the brush. But if the brush doesn't dry between sessions, there is no problem.</p>
<p>You can go about 3 weeks before the brush will start to stiffen.The, either you start to paint again or else you re-apply the clove infused oil to your brush to keep it soft.</p>
<p>Note: Use only artist grade safflower oil, not what you find in the market.</p>
<p>The beauty of this procedure is that your use of solvent is minimal.</p>
<p>Brush 'cleaning' is a breeze.</p>
<p>And, since oil paint is mostly oil, I can clean my hands etc. with simple dishwashing liquid which is formulated to cut through oil and rinse clean.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Cleaning brushes by swirling them in pure solvent releases a lot of fumes into the air and forces you to buy a lot of solvent.</p>
<p>You end up with solvent soaked rags which are dangerous to have lying around.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Gerald</p>
<p></p>