Mastering Color

[Richard Robinson]

Anything to do with the Mastering Color course goes here. Post your images up or ask questions - anything!

[Roena King]

Thanks again Terry for more information that I have copied to "your" folder. One of these days I need to read your folder and take notes! You could call me, "Mrs. Clean" when I paint. I almost never get anything on my hands, and if I do, I immediately get it off. We are on the move, and should be on the Texas coast at the Gulf of Mexico within the week. I hope to do a ocean painting using the Master Class demo of RR. We will see though. There is so much to do there painting my have to be on the back burner. Ro

[Roena King]

I have a question. It is about color, although not exactly the color course. I have been studying Sheila Mather's paintings (on this site) all morning using either Richard's Gamut Mask or my color wheel to determine the colors used. I learned a lot, so it was a fun time well spent. I have also tried to spend time studying Richard's paintings. Here are my thoughts. It would appear to me that "you really do not see all those beautiful colors in nature" so you have to have color-theory knowledge to know what pretty colors to use. Will someone tell me why it is so important that "they" all say you MUST paint plein aire if you want to be a good landscape artist. Looks to me like you just mix pretty colors from color theory studies and go paint! Ro

[terry clare]

For goodness sakes Ro, What a questuion! Where are all those plein air painters out there. I'm sure they are cooking away there with righteous indignation and lots of pronouns trying to sound not too profound and indignant before they answer this, a basic tenant of impressionism. How else to capture the euphoria of an afternoon, the spectrum on a dew drop, the reflection of the grass on the underbelly of a sheep or overhanging tree branch, the magic of a single ray of back light revealing a butterfly on a rose, using only just some pigments and a peice of board or some fabric and then not being there. Not too many people can paint a couple of still life coloured blocks with one light source from memory. For me half the enjoyment really of outdoor painting is being outdoors and seeing all the complexity. A good eye can surely pick a traced drawing or painting from a photograph any time, unless of course it's done from the experince of having done it previously once or twice or even more on site. But I do have to admit that digital imagery is getting pretty close to reallity for an artist these days, and becoming more of a tool as the technology increases. I have had a close look and been severly tempted by Daz Studios 3D and their Bryce program. Sadly my computer is not up to it, Terence

Roena King said:

I have a question. It is about color, although not exactly the color course. I have been studying Sheila Mather's paintings (on this site) all morning using either Richard's Gamut Mask or my color wheel to determine the colors used. I learned a lot, so it was a fun time well spent. I have also tried to spend time studying Richard's paintings. Here are my thoughts. It would appear to me that "you really do not see all those beautiful colors in nature" so you have to have color-theory knowledge to know what pretty colors to use. Will someone tell me why it is so important that "they" all say you MUST paint plein aire if you want to be a good landscape artist. Looks to me like you just mix pretty colors from color theory studies and go paint! Ro

[terry clare]

Hi Ro, Have a look at this site with students work. How far away is Philly. http://www.studioincamminati.org/gallery.php
Because they set up their own subject including the colour of the lighting they can control their finished result. All their colour is keyed up but correct for the conditions, Have you got some coloured globes for your blocks. Notice the similarity with pleasant differences of each students work. If you progress to the next chapter it will all come together. Enjoy the journey, Terry

terry clare said:

For goodness sakes Ro, What a questuion! Where are all those plein air painters out there. I'm sure they are cooking away there with righteous indignation and lots of pronouns trying to sound not too profound and indignant before they answer this, a basic tenant of impressionism. How else to capture the euphoria of an afternoon, the spectrum on a dew drop, the reflection of the grass on the underbelly of a sheep or overhanging tree branch, the magic of a single ray of back light revealing a butterfly on a rose, using only just some pigments and a peice of board or some fabric and then not being there. Not too many people can paint a couple of still life coloured blocks with one light source from memory. For me half the enjoyment really of outdoor painting is being outdoors and seeing all the complexity. A good eye can surely pick a traced drawing or painting from a photograph any time, unless of course it's done from the experince of having done it previously once or twice or even more on site. But I do have to admit that digital imagery is getting pretty close to reallity for an artist these days, and becoming more of a tool as the technology increases. I have had a close look and been severly tempted by Daz Studios 3D and their Bryce program. Sadly my computer is not up to it, Terence

Roena King said:

I have a question. It is about color, although not exactly the color course. I have been studying Sheila Mather's paintings (on this site) all morning using either Richard's Gamut Mask or my color wheel to determine the colors used. I learned a lot, so it was a fun time well spent. I have also tried to spend time studying Richard's paintings. Here are my thoughts. It would appear to me that "you really do not see all those beautiful colors in nature" so you have to have color-theory knowledge to know what pretty colors to use. Will someone tell me why it is so important that "they" all say you MUST paint plein aire if you want to be a good landscape artist. Looks to me like you just mix pretty colors from color theory studies and go paint! Ro

[Roena King]

Terry, Philly is 1772 miles away from the coast of Texas where I am now. Too far away! Thanks for the answer Terry. I sure hope you did not find that question first thing in the morning and have to put your brain in gear too learly! he he So, the final "conclusion" to all this discussion is EXPERIENCE. Without seeing the reflection of the grass on the sheep, or in my case, in the B&W studies and looking over and over at a real life setup, I would never have seen the reflection caused by the object that is cast into the cast shadow. Now that I have experienced it, I know it should be there so I look for it. // We went to the beach last evening 30 minutes before sunset where I took about 250 photos of "everything". Not one of the beach or water turned out. I am trying to notice the colors, how quickly people fade away in the distance, the perspective of the waves, how the waves first start to flip, then make the curl and finally crash over. // I am sorry if I upset you, but at least you strengthened "your why" you go out there and do plein aire! he he Later my friend, Roena

[Gail Runciman-Nicholls]

Well...good on you Ro for having the guts to ask the question!
Terry - Mate!...pardon us mere mortals (lol!); if we don't ask someone somewhere, we would never know & just might become famous in our own minds! Thanks for keeping us grounded, and our nose to the grindstone with a yearning to learn.
Emerson, once said: "Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow".
That's us - we are TRYING to grow!

Now I have a question for you! I have already posed this to a professional artist, but yet to receive a reply.

Q: What is that fine line that you cross and say "I am a professional artist?"
Do you equate your knowledge, skills and/or sales of work? Or is it a state of mind?
And how many years did you paint for, before declaring yourself a professional?
I know artists with lots of Education institution certificates, but to my mind, couldn't paint to save themselves; on the other hand, I also know many artists that are self taught, professional and make loads of money.
Can you tell us your story, on how you arrived at "professional" please. :-))

I know I still have a lot to learn and not being a prolific artist; but with some sales under my belt - just wondered where I'm REALLY at.

[terry clare]

Good question Gail, The answer to my mind is, it depends on who you are. If your the tax office, and they suspect you are getting some money, well your a pro. If you are the director of a serious art academy or even a gallery and you are not a personal friend of theirs, you aint. Norman Rockwell was not considered a proper artist in his time by the top academics. If you want to be a professional artist it is a good idea to start off right away calling yourself one and ignoring the sceptics. For myself....as their is no real authority in this area.....it dose'nt matter....I stick with the tax office. I was told by the local TAFE art teacher that because I had learnt to draw properly that it would come against me in my career. He is a modern abstract artist and the top teacher who's strong belief is there are no rules. As there is a move away from realist art in Ossie while the rest of the world is going the other way, he has been partially correct. Some in the art world take no prisoners, sadly. Hey, I'm a mortal as well, Terry
Gail Runciman-Nicholls said:

Well...good on you Ro for having the guts to ask the question!
Terry - Mate!...pardon us mere mortals (lol!); if we don't ask someone somewhere, we would never know & just might become famous in our own minds! Thanks for keeping us grounded, and our nose to the grindstone with a yearning to learn.
Emerson, once said: "Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow".
That's us - we are TRYING to grow!

Now I have a question for you! I have already posed this to a professional artist, but yet to receive a reply.

Q: What is that fine line that you cross and say "I am a professional artist?"
Do you equate your knowledge, skills and/or sales of work? Or is it a state of mind?
And how many years did you paint for, before declaring yourself a professional?
I know artists with lots of Education institution certificates, but to my mind, couldn't paint to save themselves; on the other hand, I also know many artists that are self taught, professional and make loads of money.
Can you tell us your story, on how you arrived at "professional" please. :-))

I know I still have a lot to learn and not being a prolific artist; but with some sales under my belt - just wondered where I'm REALLY at.

[Gail Runciman-Nicholls]

Hi Terry,
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I am none the wiser. Sorry!
I must be an artist! I am a very visual person - can you draw me a bigger word picture please!
What has the Tax Office got to do with making the decission to be professional? Apart from the fact they, along with every other leech, want to suck very last drop out of you, and you are left with the dregs!


Calling yourself professional and being professional can be two different things. Here you are, jogging around in your own space, becoming famous in your own mind, then along comes Joe Blogg and asks all these really smart questions, that you're expected to answer! Lo and behold... you're left with egg on your face! You don't have the right answers - you just do what you do and call it art!
Then along comes Miss Artspeak and all her jargon. ???? What she saying?
Me?! ...I just paint the way I paint, because that's what I see and like. It is part of the life I have lived. It is what I know.
BUT..Have I painted it right?
It's a bit like the TV ad - the nerd in the gallery going on and on about a piece, only to have the gallery director reach over and flip the piece to turn on the air conditioner! There are those that know crap all about what they are talking about and there are artists that no crap all about painting!
So...Where do I fit?
I think I can draw and paint - but is it good enough, does it have the right appeal, is it trendy enough or maybe it is just too fugitive? I am not into abstract, though I appreciate some pieces, as is with a lot of other genre in art.
Again...I ask myself, where do my art and I fit?
With all this going around in the mind, just how do you arrive at "Professional"?

[terry clare]

Hi Gail Dear friend, I must admit I do not have an answer as to who is a proffessional. I do not consider myself to be professional, as I do not rely on it for an income, and never have. Neither do I have a certificate to wave around for art. I really don't have any ambition in that area. I have plenty of certificates for other things. I have enjoyed painting for the last 56 years, though not on a regular basis, and sold many oil paintings, pastels and sculptures. I haven't won any prizes and dont go in any competitions because I don't believe they are good. Many of my peers would agree that I have little right to any opinions on art nor should I ever give any advise. However my ideas are freely stated for acceptance or rejection and welcome to any critical analysis. Ther'e mainly leant from others. Egos and superiority are important for many people and artists. I got rid of my ego years ago and would recommend the accompnying freedom to all artists. History has shown the many conflicts caused by over bearing and competitive behaviour in the art business arena. I don't paint for money, to show cleverness, to achieve notority, to be professional or be better than anyone else. Mine is just a pleasant addiction. Anyone who answers the professional question is putting their head on a block. My question is would you like to become a proffessional and what sort of a certicate would you deem appropriate for such a momentous occasion. As a lithographic printer I'm at least good in that area, momentous giggling, Terry
Gail Runciman-Nicholls said:

Hi Terry,
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I am none the wiser. Sorry!
I must be an artist! I am a very visual person - can you draw me a bigger word picture please!
What has the Tax Office got to do with making the decission to be professional? Apart from the fact they, along with every other leech, want to suck very last drop out of you, and you are left with the dregs!


Calling yourself professional and being professional can be two different things. Here you are, jogging around in your own space, becoming famous in your own mind, then along comes Joe Blogg and asks all these really smart questions, that you're expected to answer! Lo and behold... you're left with egg on your face! You don't have the right answers - you just do what you do and call it art!
Then along comes Miss Artspeak and all her jargon. ???? What she saying?
Me?! ...I just paint the way I paint, because that's what I see and like. It is part of the life I have lived. It is what I know.
BUT..Have I painted it right?
It's a bit like the TV ad - the nerd in the gallery going on and on about a piece, only to have the gallery director reach over and flip the piece to turn on the air conditioner! There are those that know crap all about what they are talking about and there are artists that no crap all about painting!
So...Where do I fit?
I think I can draw and paint - but is it good enough, does it have the right appeal, is it trendy enough or maybe it is just too fugitive? I am not into abstract, though I appreciate some pieces, as is with a lot of other genre in art.
Again...I ask myself, where do my art and I fit?
With all this going around in the mind, just how do you arrive at "Professional"?

[Gail Runciman-Nicholls]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Thank you, thank you thank you! I now feel that I am in the company of artists!
That being, those that share their hard won gains by trial and error, or good info received from another artist, to add to their bundle of skills.
I think you are right, when you said - "Anyone who answers the professional question is putting their head on a block".
I am yet to find anyone who can really define this catagory.
Like you, I have drawn and painted since I was very young. I have always tried to improve my skills as I journeyed through the years. I also have no ego about painting. As I said before, I paint the things I have experienced or seen. I thought I would have more time to paint in retirement, but unfortunately, not so! I was fortunate enough about 5 years ago, where i had the opportunity to paint every day for nearly two years. I had built up a good body of work in that period, so held an exhibition in my old home town. It was the biggest exhibition and attendance the gallery had at that time.
It was a huge learning curve of protocol at a gallery. But it was the unexpected assumption that people presume you are a professional artist, because you hold an exhibition, that really floored me. Also that people assume you can and will paint anything.
I have found out the hard way; I will not accept commissions. Dealing with people that don't know what they want, is not a good way to start a painting. They suddenly become experts the moment you produce the painting from their list of criteria, and say NO! After three sets of studies and a final painting; there was no deposit, so I don't feel obliged to go any further. I eventually cut the painting into three. One of which is in my gallery, on this site.

To answer your question Terry - I have no thoughts to becoming a professional artist. It is scary enough trying to call myself an artist. As for certificates - I personally don't think they are worth the paper they are written on. I have seen first hand certificates handed out to people that don't reach satisfactory standards, but still receive the certificate because it looks good on the books.
I enjoy what I do, when I get the opportunity. Hopefully soon, I will paint on a more regular basis again. But in the meantime, I will enjoy learning new things from this site and people like yourself, whom are willing to share their knowledge. For that - I thank you very much!

[terry clare]

Right you are Gail, I have been in 3 art societies and on the committee of two. I have seen artists with resumes 3 feet long who just happen to be in a position to elect the judge, or are a student or friend of same. I have seen committees controled by an small elite of old school friends. Art attracts a lot of would be's, specially abstaction, and opportunists. You get to be able to spot them after a while. Have a look at what the top galleries are doing. They buy eachothers paintings to push up prices to rediculous levels. They live in a different world and enjoy a different way of life. Some of them end up in jail. Luckily today fashion and art tastes are very broad and people can do what they like. Somebody laughed at me one day when I said to them "Virtue is it's own reward". They did not or could not understand it's benefits. Painting with your own little group is the best way, Terry
Gail Runciman-Nicholls said:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Thank you, thank you thank you! I now feel that I am in the company of artists!
That being, those that share their hard won gains by trial and error, or good info received from another artist, to add to their bundle of skills.
I think you are right, when you said - "Anyone who answers the professional question is putting their head on a block".
I am yet to find anyone who can really define this catagory.
Like you, I have drawn and painted since I was very young. I have always tried to improve my skills as I journeyed through the years. I also have no ego about painting. As I said before, I paint the things I have experienced or seen. I thought I would have more time to paint in retirement, but unfortunately, not so! I was fortunate enough about 5 years ago, where i had the opportunity to paint every day for nearly two years. I had built up a good body of work in that period, so held an exhibition in my old home town. It was the biggest exhibition and attendance the gallery had at that time.
It was a huge learning curve of protocol at a gallery. But it was the unexpected assumption that people presume you are a professional artist, because you hold an exhibition, that really floored me. Also that people assume you can and will paint anything.
I have found out the hard way; I will not accept commissions. Dealing with people that don't know what they want, is not a good way to start a painting. They suddenly become experts the moment you produce the painting from their list of criteria, and say NO! After three sets of studies and a final painting; there was no deposit, so I don't feel obliged to go any further. I eventually cut the painting into three. One of which is in my gallery, on this site.

To answer your question Terry - I have no thoughts to becoming a professional artist. It is scary enough trying to call myself an artist. As for certificates - I personally don't think they are worth the paper they are written on. I have seen first hand certificates handed out to people that don't reach satisfactory standards, but still receive the certificate because it looks good on the books.
I enjoy what I do, when I get the opportunity. Hopefully soon, I will paint on a more regular basis again. But in the meantime, I will enjoy learning new things from this site and people like yourself, whom are willing to share their knowledge. For that - I thank you very much!

[Gail Runciman-Nicholls]

Hi Terry,
Again, thank you for summing up, what I have felt about the art world for some time. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has this concept.
Even small "Art Groups" that I have been in, have their own politicking - I am now a solo artist and much happier for it.
I did belong to a group when I lived elsewhere - it was a great group and we had a good artist to guide us. I really miss this group, as I learned a great deal in the 2 1/2 years I was with them. Unfortunately, the group broke up for various outside reasons; then I re-located to a different area. I guess this site has now become a substitute for both learning and socializing with artists. I have found Richard has a lot on offer if you do the lessons. You have also offered so much. Like Roena, I too shall keep notes of things for reference.
Thanks so much. :-))