Mastering Color

[Richard Robinson]

Anything to do with the Mastering Color course goes here. Post your images up or ask questions - anything!

[Roena King]

Richard, my colors are not really the colors you see. I could not do the 5 step process to arrive at the correct color. It was confusing. After I while, I just painted. I think you mentioned that value was more important than color. I think I got the values pretty close so that part is OK. I just wanted to match the exact color the way you do. Ro

[Richard Robinson]

Well your colors turned out pretty good too so you must be doing something right! :-)
Here's the technique as I think of it today:
1. Choose the closest tube color or mixture of 2 tube colors.
2. If required, add white or yellow until the value is correct.
3. Compare the hue - does it need to be warmer or cooler? ie. which direction does it need to move around the color wheel?
4. Check the chroma - is the color too vibrant or too grey? You can't really raise the chroma at this point, but if you need to lower it you just add a grey of the same value or the color's approximate mixing complement. This is really the trickiest step I think, and it's easy to spot in beginners work where they don't get this right - just seeing the chroma of a color is difficult and I still struggle with it. Remember too that we tend to see high chroma colors as having lighter value than they actually have and low chroma colors as having lower value than they actually have. Sounds like a science lesson doesn't it? But the more you try to get these things right the more that will make sense.
5. Check the value, hue and chroma again.

You won't have to go through all these steps with every color - sometimes you just hit the right note straight away, but the biggest lesson to take away here is that you need to be able to see and think about color as a union of hue, value and chroma so that you can look at it and see which one of the 3 needs changing and know how to do that without changing the other 2 - like a 3 sided Rubic's Cube.

R.

[terry clare]

Hi Ro, I think you got it alright! for this part of the process to go on to further development. Remember! nature or the real world has 3 dimensions and perfect colour (light) to play with. We have only 2 dimensions and tube imperfect colours, so changes have to happen. If you look at this 6 months later and compare it with your current work, you will see a lot of impovement then. Yep! some people take 6 years. I'll give you 6 months, Terry
Richard Robinson said:

Well your colors turned out pretty good too so you must be doing something right! :-)
Here's the technique as I think of it today:
1. Choose the closest tube color or mixture of 2 tube colors.
2. If required, add white or yellow until the value is correct.
3. Compare the hue - does it need to be warmer or cooler? ie. which direction does it need to move around the color wheel?
4. Check the chroma - is the color too vibrant or too grey? You can't really raise the chroma at this point, but if you need to lower it you just add a grey of the same value or the color's approximate mixing complement. This is really the trickiest step I think, and it's easy to spot in beginners work where they don't get this right - just seeing the chroma of a color is difficult and I still struggle with it. Remember too that we tend to see high chroma colors as having lighter value than they actually have and low chroma colors as having lower value than they actually have. Sounds like a science lesson doesn't it? But the more you try to get these things right the more that will make sense.
5. Check the value, hue and chroma again.

You won't have to go through all these steps with every color - sometimes you just hit the right note straight away, but the biggest lesson to take away here is that you need to be able to see and think about color as a union of hue, value and chroma so that you can look at it and see which one of the 3 needs changing and know how to do that without changing the other 2 - like a 3 sided Rubic's Cube.

R.

[terry clare]

O.K. Ro, I enlarged your painting and had a closer look. You put a lot of hard work and great detail in there. Great work and I likes it a lot. I think you are probably unhappy because you are comparing it to what Richard's version would look like compared to yours, and you have been painting and drawing for a long time and thought it would happen a little faster. To get RRs effect in your painting you need only to add thicker paint and study your painting from 6 feet away. When working in a caravan you need either a mirror over the shoulder or a reducing glass or you go outside and look at it through the window. #:) LOL If you l blow RR's paintings up you don't see anything. You have to step back to admire. He uses a palette knife like a shovel. His brush is a palette knife with bristles. His detail is impressional. Texture increases the surface area of the paint and reflects more colour. By changing the direction of his brush stokes he can make a painting dazzle. His art supply bill is 4 times higher and he needs a web site and marketing techniques to cover the costs. Come to think of it so do we all. The chemical paint companies are making a motza. I have seen a proffessional artists palette scraping pile 4 feet high by 1 foot 6 wide. This bloke intends to slice it into 1/8 thickneses and sell it later. O.K. Whats next, Terry
terry clare said:

Hi Ro, I think you got it alright! for this part of the process to go on to further development. Remember! nature or the real world has 3 dimensions and perfect colour (light) to play with. We have only 2 dimensions and tube imperfect colours, so changes have to happen. If you look at this 6 months later and compare it with your current work, you will see a lot of impovement then. Yep! some people take 6 years. I'll give you 6 months, Terry
Richard Robinson said:

Well your colors turned out pretty good too so you must be doing something right! :-)
Here's the technique as I think of it today:
1. Choose the closest tube color or mixture of 2 tube colors.
2. If required, add white or yellow until the value is correct.
3. Compare the hue - does it need to be warmer or cooler? ie. which direction does it need to move around the color wheel?
4. Check the chroma - is the color too vibrant or too grey? You can't really raise the chroma at this point, but if you need to lower it you just add a grey of the same value or the color's approximate mixing complement. This is really the trickiest step I think, and it's easy to spot in beginners work where they don't get this right - just seeing the chroma of a color is difficult and I still struggle with it. Remember too that we tend to see high chroma colors as having lighter value than they actually have and low chroma colors as having lower value than they actually have. Sounds like a science lesson doesn't it? But the more you try to get these things right the more that will make sense.
5. Check the value, hue and chroma again.

You won't have to go through all these steps with every color - sometimes you just hit the right note straight away, but the biggest lesson to take away here is that you need to be able to see and think about color as a union of hue, value and chroma so that you can look at it and see which one of the 3 needs changing and know how to do that without changing the other 2 - like a 3 sided Rubic's Cube.

R.

[Roena King]

Richard, thank you so much for writing that out for me. I have it printed out and think it will work. Sometimes you just need someone to say it just a bit differently (say the same thing again), and it clicks. I am hopeful. (smile)

Terry, you are so funny, but I love the complement and encouragement. To be sure I understand it......(This is my version now --) I bought Richard's color course and am doing the exercises per Richard's instructions and you predict it will take 5 1/2 years off my learning curve! Hot Dog........that is wonderful! Thank you Richard!!!!! he he

All kidding aside......I am having a really good time in the course and would recommend it to anyone.

Honestly I am trying to put more paint on. I have 3 coats of gesso as well. I do not remember having a problem with not covering the canvas like I am here lately. For the gray scale I added only linseed oil as I did not want the piles of paint to dry since I was going to be painting so many gray scale paintings. Maybe I put to much, but I did not think so. I just made the paint a smooth, fluffy consistancy - like toothpaste.

I love this forum.......it is fun. Ro

[terry clare]

Ro, Do you use long paint or short paint. Long paint is chewing gummy...dosen't snap off, short paint is buttery...snaps of early out of the container. Short holds the brush stroke texture and sits up on the canvas. Long flattens and is good for glazing. Some brands are shorter than others. Too make paint short, leave it on a blotter for a while (removes oil) or leave it out overnight (oxidises). Thin up short paint with a bit of turps, dosen't need much. To lengthen add oil. Rembrandt used long paint that held its shape. Artists and scientists are still trying to work out his technique. They think he had some sort of dryer and worked fast, Terry

[Richard Robinson]

:-) You're a gold mine Terry! Ro, something I was trying out today - try limiting yourself to only 5 brushstrokes per element - or something similar. Force yourself to be more direct and use more paint.
R.

[Roena King]

Ro, Do you use long paint or short paint. Long paint is chewing gummy...dosen't snap off, I JUST FINISHED A TUBE OF VERY OLD WHITE THAT WAS LIKE THAT ///// short paint is buttery.I THINK MY OTHER PAINT OF VARIOUS MANUF. IS SOFT WITH THE TRANSPARENT ONES - LIKE ALIZ CRIM & PRUS BLUE BEING EVEN MORE SOFT
Too make paint short, leave it on a blotter for a while (removes oil) I HAVE HAD PAINT THAT RAN OIL WHEN I TOOK IT OUT OF THE TUBE SO I UNDERSTAND, BUT NONE OF MINE THAT I HAVE NOW (DONT THINK) DOES THAT.
///// WHEN I REPLACED MY 150 ml SIZE TITANIUM WHITE....."I did not pay attention" AND ENDED UP WITH GRUMBACHER UNDERPAINTING WHITE. APPARENTLY IT HAS SOME TYPE DRYER IN IT, IS VERY OILY, DRYS SO FAST IT DRYS ON THE PALETTE ALMOST BEFORE THE DAY IS COMPLETED WITH THAT PAINTING SESSION. IT GOES ON LIKE SLICK, THIN, SHINY GLUE! YUCK. I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED THIS BEFORE, SO FIRST CHANCE I WILL BUY THE REGULAR TIT.WHITE! //////////// RICHARD, I TRY TO PAINT FAST AND USE FEWER BRUSH STROKES (and use more paint-he he) BUT MY FAST ATTEMPTS LOOK SO ELEMENTARY SCHOOLISH, I WOULD NEVER SHOW THEM TO ANYONE. YOURS LOOK GOOD, MINE JUST LOOK UGLY. I WILL KEEP TRYING TO DO YOUR SUGGESTIONS AS I THINK YOU ARE WISE (AND TERRY TOO). PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP ON ME AS I WILL KEEP LISTENING AND TRYING MY BEST. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP - RICHARD AND TERRY - IT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED. RO

[Roena King]

I just found this on my computer. It is from another color class showing all the paint colors that I own and indicating tube colors saturation. If you blow up the picture you can read that I also indicated what value the color was, the brand name, and transparent-opaque, glazing pigments, stain and no staining pigments. When I did my cube painting I placed the colors I picked out to use on my palette according to its tube color value. I have no idea if it really helped, but it sounded like a good idea. I should think this might be helpful to pick colors USING RICHARD'S 5 STEP MIXING METHOD to understand your tube color saturation to know which colors to try to mix to keep a high saturation. ........Anyway, I had it so here it is. I hope it helps in some way. At least it is something else to think about. Ro

[terry clare]

Hi Ro, Wow 63 tubes of oil paint. Thats over $500 worth. That will take you about 3 months to use. Hope you are saving up. The only one there I would avoid is Madder Lake, it is supposed to fade or be non permanent. Mix it with the other reds to use it up. Cerulian isn't used much, it's too expensive and I suspect the manufacturers don't have much in it any more. Sap is verry transparent, a hot green can be got with Cad Orange. You have a hot and cold there of each primary which is good they are basic. Don't forget you can get an intense primary by mixing the hot and cold together and nice blacks with the dark primaries (usually transparent) mixed with a dark earth colour. Raw Sienna dries quickly so is often used in the dark under colour. A lot of your colours are easily inter changed as they are very much alike. Not a bad collection, Terry
Roena King said:

I just found this on my computer. It is from another color class showing all the paint colors that I own and indicating tube colors saturation. If you blow up the picture you can read that I also indicated what value the color was, the brand name, and transparent-opaque, glazing pigments, stain and no staining pigments. When I did my cube painting I placed the colors I picked out to use on my palette according to its tube color value. I have no idea if it really helped, but it sounded like a good idea. I should think this might be helpful to pick colors USING RICHARD'S 5 STEP MIXING METHOD to understand your tube color saturation to know which colors to try to mix to keep a high saturation. ........Anyway, I had it so here it is. I hope it helps in some way. At least it is something else to think about. Ro

[Roena King]

Terry, I aquired all my mother's old paint and mine combined together to get this many. I have 3 jars full of lovely brushes too. If I should go through that amount in 3 months, the for sure I am not using enough paint when I do a painting!!!!! When I started painting again, I couldn't remember much, so I went back to very limited palettes of color. I really dont know what to do with all those colors, so they sit in the tubes. Ro

[terry clare]

Hi Ro, Aha! You started painting again. It's like riding a bike, you don't forget but it takes a little while to get back on. Your Saturation Chart (Chroma Chart) is very nicely laid out as the Spectrum or rainbow or the same as usually laid out on the palette. YORVIBG..You can use any of those primaries there..one hot, one cold of each. The secondries save time for mixing tertiary colour. For hot primaries use Cad Yellow,Cad Red, Ultramarine....or similar. Cold Primaries, Lemon, Alizarin, Cobalt or similar. To memorise-organise tubes use abbreviation shorthand. CadY. CadR. Ult.....Lem. Alz. Cob... The earth colours are used to darken for shadows CadY+YOch CadR+VenR Ult+RawU. You are probably doing this already. Viridian is for bottles or makes a great tourquois, Light Red is for dirt roads, you can easily work out what each colour is used for. Cerulian is not used much due to being expensive. It greys beautifully. Richard uses just a few basic colours to paint with but changes the few basics depending on the subject, mood.or light. I suspect a lot of basic tube colour these days are not as intense as the old tube colour. They water them down, or dont use as much pigment sadly. At least you don't poison yourself as quickly. Hope you are using a handglove cream, Terry
Roena King said:

Terry, I aquired all my mother's old paint and mine combined together to get this many. I have 3 jars full of lovely brushes too. If I should go through that amount in 3 months, the for sure I am not using enough paint when I do a painting!!!!! When I started painting again, I couldn't remember much, so I went back to very limited palettes of color. I really dont know what to do with all those colors, so they sit in the tubes. Ro