last attempt

ah well, had to make the reeds up - I've sort of lost it ;( - but usually, once I do a subject, it 'comes back' down down the line - next time, I'll be concentrating on the reeds! (sorry to be boring!)

oil on board, 68 x 80 cm

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Comment by Robin Sage on August 12, 2016 at 8:34: Thanks for all that Jon - I s'pose we just need to do it!!

Comment by Jon Main on August 12, 2016 at 7:53: Hi, Robin - yeah, I plan it out in my head - I'll do that and this and that - but when I've got the brush in my fist it just doesn't go as planned - ;(!

((What's good about this site is we concentrate on the 'golden nails' (fundamentals)

Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/edgardegas389553.html

Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edgar_degas.html

Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things. Edgar Degas
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edgar_degas.html

Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things. Edgar Degas
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edgar_degas.html

Comment by Robin Sage on August 12, 2016 at 6:56: You're certainly right about getting the old brain going Jon, and I love the way the discussion sharpens up the observation - so nice to be part of it all - thanks for posting the painting - the scene is very inviting. The other day a friend of mine brought a Degas quote back from Paris for me "Painting is easy when you don't know how, but very difficult when you do!"

Comment by Jon Main on August 9, 2016 at 21:19: Hi, Robin! Yep, there's been some good discussion - and valuable input - I've really been enjoying it - get the old brain ticking over!!!

Comment by Robin Sage on August 9, 2016 at 8:12: Such great comments and valuable contributions - particularly Michael. So much to challenge us!

Comment by Jon Main on August 9, 2016 at 5:10: Hi,Aurelia - yeah miss out the hard bits ;D that's the way to go - I agree!

Unfortunately, I spent some time a couple of years ago working on trees! - but, thinking about Michael's comments I feel that that is the way to go - shapes, boldness - got to abstract everything

Comment by Aurelia Sieberhagen on August 8, 2016 at 17:58: Love this painting Jon and the way the river is leading you in. I like Jan Kooiman's version without the tree as well. There is a nice explanation how to paint trees in the VAA notes under "Form Unit 2". I am also struggling with trees ... that way I leave them out if I can, but I shouldn't ... practice make perfect! You are getting there. And thanks Michael for a detail analysis. I learnt a lot myself!

Comment by Jon Main on August 7, 2016 at 19:28: Wow, that's a really nice (and extremely useful/worthwhile) series of comments

- starting with Joy, then a really good thought from you, Candi, then Jan thinking hard about it through to a dense and detailed explanation from Michael!

Your comment feels like 'challenge' that is probably too great, Michael - but I'm going to try and do it a fifth!!!!!!!! time to see if I can start to approach that (as a learning projec)

- thanks to ya all guys!!

Comment by Michael J. Severin on August 7, 2016 at 10:37: Hi Jan. I really like your photo shopped re arrangement of the composition!!! ... very nice. :)

Comment by Michael J. Severin on August 7, 2016 at 10:03: Hi Jon. Use abstract irregular shapes .. especially for amorphous shapes likes trees, clouds, bushes, etc. The more simplified the smaller shapes are within the larger shape, the better. Your main tree is an oval ... a very boring shape. If you cut the tree in half, both sides would look exactly the same, the same thing is happening to that distant conifer .. you don't want that. Right now, in your artistic development, you have a tendency to paint with a preconceived idea of what something should look like ... so you paint the tree trunk brown, straight, and splitting off in a perfect "Y". I will let you know, that I catch myself doing the same darn thing!!!! ... But you must not just think of shapes in a positive way, you must design your shapes so that they create exciting negative shapes as well as positive shapes. The sawtooth shape at the top of your tree does not create an exciting sky negative shape, the roundness of your stream does not create an interesting shape of the land on the right. The shape of your left bank reeds and the background trees does not create an interesting negative shape of the sunlit ground. That is why creating interesting shapes .... shapes that interlock ... is more important than thinking of rendering a.... tree. a meadow, a stream, etc. Once again, I am so guilty of not doing these things I am talking about ... because I am still learning myself .... but I am constantly training myself to see this way!! .. it is not easy, trust me. Okay, how to simplify your tree shape? ... first, your darks should be mostly vertical strokes, and with your lights, your brush strokes will follow the planes of the form Now your main tree has too many small shapes and no form....making it flat and busy. The tree shape is round, so you need a light ..warm side, and a darker, cooler side .. note I said cooler, but not necessarily a cool color. :) The dark part of the tree is thin .. I like transparent color here .. and the light side is thick juicy strokes that follow the form. I usually place my sky holes so they carve out branches in a negative manner. Look at tree trunks carefully .. strip away your pre conceived ideas. You will note that many tree trunks are various warm or cool grays, some are violet, some are warm or cool greens, etc. ... get brown out of your tool box. Then once you have blocked a color in, there is reflected light from both the ground and the sky. So in this tree, you could have painted some warm greens from the grass reflecting into that side of the tree trunk and ..UNDER the tree mass. You could then have some cool from the water reflecting back up into the other side. Jon, unfortunately for us landscape painters, trees are everywhere in the doggone landscape!! ... so we need to study them very closely to be able to see them with the artist eye.